International Photographers Association of Los Angeles 洛杉磯國際攝影家協會

We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen, the music we have heard, the people we have loved. -Ansel Adams
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文章發表於 : 週五 9月 26, 2008 11:36 am 
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註冊時間: 週二 5月 13, 2008 3:09 pm
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一直被色彩的问题很困扰
发现不同显示器的显示效果相差相当巨大
手动调到不能忍,就买了spyder
可是发现spyder校色的结果也不一样
在我的desktop (pc)和laptop (mac)上就完全不一样
然后这两天一打印,发现偏差更大
不同打印机就不说了
同一台打印机两台电脑打出来的都不一样
几乎找不到两种能完全对应的色彩
已经快被逼疯了。。。

大家都是怎么解决这些问题的啊
以打印机为准把显示器往打印效果上调?

还有顺便问下大家怎么处理adobe RGB和sRGB的问题啊
在网上看说为了迁就网页浏览一般出片还是用sRGB
也有人说拍片用adobe RGB,后期也用
到出片前最后一部转sRGB
不过我一转色彩就完全黯淡下去了
要再重新调一遍sRGB吗
好像也太麻烦了吧。。。


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文章發表於 : 週五 9月 26, 2008 1:11 pm 
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註冊時間: 週日 6月 29, 2008 10:51 pm
文章: 1082
來自: Los Angeles
这3篇文章可能有帮助

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/colorvisionspyder.htm

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/adobe-rgb.htm

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/printers.htm

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文章發表於 : 週六 9月 27, 2008 4:20 pm 
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註冊時間: 週二 5月 13, 2008 3:09 pm
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谢谢,看了一下,很有帮助
不过问题还是解决不了
我死活也无法把pc和mac校到一致
而问题是我觉得pc好像更准一些。。。
难道是因为我用的是spyder2express
一定需要用pro吗。。。。

btw
大家照片一般在哪里打啊
不会遇到不一致的问题吗


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文章發表於 : 週一 9月 29, 2008 1:05 am 
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註冊時間: 週四 2月 15, 2007 12:56 pm
文章: 5438
flyinwonder 寫:
谢谢,看了一下,很有帮助
不过问题还是解决不了
我死活也无法把pc和mac校到一致
而问题是我觉得pc好像更准一些。。。
难道是因为我用的是spyder2express
一定需要用pro吗。。。。

btw
大家照片一般在哪里打啊
不会遇到不一致的问题吗


我一般在Costco印,便宜。 :D 等有了好的再去专业店印。


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文章發表於 : 週四 10月 02, 2008 1:23 am 
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註冊時間: 週五 6月 06, 2008 9:56 am
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I can type Chinese but it's too slow for me. So allow me to type it in English here.

(1) Both the monitors and printers need to be calibrated. For this reason, you should isolate the problems by dealing with the monitor first. Calibrating a printer is a lot harder and not worthwhile as the printing cost is so cheap now (costco printing 17cents each 4x6). Most people would rather like to use a printer shop for this reason. In my case, I use the cheap Costco service (talk about that later).

(2) I have done some homework before. My understanding is that Spider II is good but weak in handling the highlight details (like details in a bride's white dress). Spider III is better but a little more expensive than Spider II.
Xrite's Eye1-Display2 monitor calibrator has very good review (the higher end models are used by the professionals) and is priced reasonably around $200 when I bought mine at "Norman Camera" at around $175 about 6 months ago. I just check it and it's now $199.

(3) If using Costco, you may find that the printouts may have a little red color cast/mood and darker than what you would see on the calibrated screen (calibrated to color temperature = 6500K and brightness/luminence = 120, Gamma=2.2). At least, Costco printing is calibrated to a high standard and therefore is CONSISTENT. So if you print you calibrated photos at Costco, you may want to increase the luminence and contrast a little bit (say 5 to 10%) beyond what you would like to see on the LCD screen.

(4) Even if you monitor has the RGB control buttons and preset color temperatures, there is a 98% chance that the preset temperature will not be accurate and you will not be able to calibrate your monitor properly by hand (with your best eyes and best color reference tools) because the software can compensate/adjust a lot more in software beyond the physical control knobs you have on the screen. If you ever try to manually calibrate the monitor using Eye1-Display2 (the first step in doing a detailed adjustment), you will see how hard it's to control the RGB to balance out these colors. Trying to adjust a Gamma=2.2? Impossible to achieve in most LCD monitors (I don't know anything about the expensive professional monitors but I have played with several consumer LCD screen and CRT monitors). The sw that comes with the calibrator will do that for you fairly accurately. Of course, the Spider should do it well too.

(5) To eliminate all uncontrollable/unknown factors, it's suggested that you eliminate the following factors in handling your photos first and then slowly test/play/evaluate each eliminated factor one at a time (after you can properly calibrated the monitor and confirmed the result).
(a) Use only sRGB format in shooting and post editing.
(b) Consider using Costco printing to get rid of printing variables. Be sure to specify on the order "NO Brightness/Color Adjustment" to ensure you get consistent result (I have printed the same photos at various Costco: Alhambra, Montebello, Hawthorn and they all came out consistently the same).
(c) Now play with your Spider. But please search online to understand why the standard (120 for luminence, 2.2 for gamma, 6400-6500K for color temperature) is used. After the calibration, be sure to confirm that the final number match closely the above values.

Info:
http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/moni ... _tools.htm
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/revi ... lay_2.html
http://www.pcworld.com/shopping/reviews ... views.html
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/arti ... r2pro.html

Norman Camera (look for the one marked Xrite (later version) instead of Pantone (early version))
http://www.normancamera.com/product-exe ... t_Software

Good luck and hope this can help.

Paul Cao

_________________
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http://www.flickr.com/pcaophotography
Nikon D70 + Kit Lens


最後由 PaulCao 於 週四 10月 02, 2008 4:48 pm 編輯, 總共編輯了 1 次

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文章發表於 : 週四 10月 02, 2008 2:15 am 
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註冊時間: 週二 9月 02, 2008 4:08 pm
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影响打印质量的原因在打印机,纸张和显示的配合,首先要校准的是打印机,然后是显示器,因为打印机是最终输出,比显示器更难控制,不同机型,纸张和油墨都不一样.我宁可信任打印机也不信任屏幕.
我的dell的显示器偏亮,而mac上显示偏暗,mac其实是接近印刷的,我不认为mac的显示质量比pc的要好,关键是习惯和校准,pc做好了也是一样的.我用2个屏幕,pc的多是办公文件,而mac做设计,办公文件过暗眼睛很不舒服,但是我2个屏幕一起使用的时候,习惯了就不会怀疑原始文件了,反而有时候在不同显示下观察原始文件更容易找出问题.
校对是这样进行的,在PS或是illustrator里面,用cmyk模式打印pantone的几个标准色块,然后对比pantone的色样本色块来调整,首先判断打印机是否正确打印,和显示器无关,最好在正午阳光下去看打印结果,因为办公室的日光灯色温偏高.只要打印出来的色彩和pantone本子一样以后,就说明打印机和pantone设定之间已经一致,这时候无论怎样调整显示器都不会影响标准打印了,然后用软件进行亮度,色差和饱和的调整,直到显示和打印色彩最接近为止.完全准确实际上是很难做到的,只要感觉舒服就可以,就是印刷公司也是接近而已.一旦校准以后,不要再怀疑原稿色彩,显示器怎样显示只是作为参考.完全以打印为准.
另外经常清洗和检验打印机的色彩状态.还有纸张的质量也有区别.一般来说校准后颜色本身不会有过大的偏差,偏差可能会出现在亮度和饱和度上.

我用sRGB做LR的输出色彩设置,对比过不同设置,只有这个颜色还原比较接近,adobe的rgb在adobe的软件里面都没有问题,一旦到了windows里面就灰的离谱,另外文件尺寸变大.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonsun08/ 相册地址
weibo.com/ssunsun 微博
ssunsun.tuchong.com 国内图博


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文章發表於 : 週四 10月 02, 2008 1:15 pm 
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註冊時間: 週三 5月 23, 2007 1:00 pm
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大家都很有研究.我从大家的帖中学到了不少东西.

我也发现用Canon的Digital Professional和Adobe的Photoshop间.有色彩偏差问题. 尤其是从16bit的Tiff转Jpeg时.问题更明显. 色彩丢了很多层次.不知道是为什么.


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文章發表於 : 週四 10月 02, 2008 4:21 pm 
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註冊時間: 週五 6月 06, 2008 9:56 am
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I don't have a Canon and/or Canon Digital and so I am not sure how it behaves. However, between TIFF and JPEG, there should be an obvious difference in quality (particularly in sharpness and clarity)

TIFF is a lossless compression scheme (i.e. not loosing the quality if one saves and re-saves multiple times, say 100 times) while JPG is a lossy compression scheme (i.e. each time you save, you'll loose some information/quality). one can save a TIFF file using varying sizes 8bit or 16bit (or higher) (8bits -> 2**8=256, 16bits -> 2**16=65536) while JPG can only be saved at 8bit size. The larger the size, the better the quality it is, relatively speaking.

A TIFF file can be 10 to 100 times bigger than a JPG file depending how far one wants to compress the JPGA file and naturally it should loose the color quality while acquiring a lot of JPG art effects.

In Nikon Capture, if I save the file into JPG or TIFF, the color different is very little but the quality (sharp and clear) is quite different. That seems to be true as well in Photoshop for me (using sRGB). Xianren mentioned that he saw a big difference in color when saving in JPEG vs TIFF, I wonder if that could have been caused by the use of Adobe RGB being saved directly to JPEG without going through an sRGB conversion.

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http://www.flickr.com/pcaophotography
Nikon D70 + Kit Lens


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文章發表於 : 週五 10月 03, 2008 10:36 am 
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註冊時間: 週二 9月 02, 2008 4:08 pm
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http://www.color-gl.com/Article/ShowClass.asp?ClassID=4
这个连接里面不少关于打印和显示的色彩管理文章和软件测评。

http://quickgamma.de/indexen.html
http://58.251.57.206/down?cid=AEDF5FDF4 ... 9150AAB683
2个软件下载

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonsun08/ 相册地址
weibo.com/ssunsun 微博
ssunsun.tuchong.com 国内图博


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文章發表於 : 週一 10月 06, 2008 2:01 pm 
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註冊時間: 週二 5月 13, 2008 3:09 pm
文章: 19
谢谢PaulCao
谢谢老飘飘
受益非浅啊
色彩果然博大精深
待我把连接读过以后再来请教
:)


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文章發表於 : 週一 10月 06, 2008 6:54 pm 
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註冊時間: 週六 3月 10, 2007 1:46 am
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图片的色彩也一直是我困惑的一大问题。大家的分享受益非浅。我想有必要我们就色彩问题在某个周五来个研讨会。 :admire: :admire: :admire:


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